Talk:Ersa

Greece Low‑importance

	Greece portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Classical Greece and Rome Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Mythology Low‑importance

	Mythology portal This article is supported by WikiProject Mythology. This project provides a central approach to Mythology-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the WikiProject page for more details.MythologyWikipedia:WikiProject MythologyTemplate:WikiProject MythologyMythology
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Comments

The following was moved from the article page: olivier 13:46, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)

"Contempory physists claim she was responsible for the Rochechouart crater but others argue that this assumption has its roots in Nomenian logic."

Note: "Nomenian logic" does not return any Google hit.

Ersa name

Isn't the name Era based off her? Or is that irrelevant? Clementine990 (talk) 20:08, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Confusion with Herse (daughter of Cecrops)

@UrielAcosta: As I said in my edit summary, that source is talking about a different figure, Herse (daughter of Cecrops). Did you read that article? Grant's entry on Herse says nothing about her being the same as the figure in this Alcman fragment, and he is clearly just talking about the genealogy and mythology of Herse (daughter of Cecrops). – Michael Aurel (talk) 14:46, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is the same Greek name ("Dew"), and Greek myths & legends often have variants- so any claim that they are totally separate characters must have a reliable source specifying that the two are not the same. As for other Wikipedia articles, per WP:CIRCULAR they are not reliable sources. If an article has reliably sourced content, editors may transfer the content & sources to another article, but claims cannot be made in one article based solely on another's content. And per WP:VOLUNTEER editors absolutely may not insist that other editors need to read anything outside of the article being edited (and any Wikipedia protocols cited to explain previous edits that they wish to change).

Please remember that readers of a Wikipedia article need to have all of the sources in the article itself, and that editors may not decide for themselves that a source "clearly" means something that the source does not actually say. UrielAcosta (talk) 15:14, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The name of the subject of this article has the same meaning as the name of Herse (the daughter of Cecrops) because, obviously, they have the same name... And multiple separate mythological figures can of course have the same name. Contrary to what you say, the WP:BURDEN is on you to provide a source which says that the subject of this article, the figure mentioned in the Alcman fragment, is the same as the daughter of Cecrops being mentioned by Grant. So far we have no such source, as Grant does not say this.

By your logic, I could add to our article on William Shakespeare that he is a Canadian town because I can find a find a source calling Shakespeare a Canadian town, and then I could require, for the statement to be removed, that editors procure sources which explicitly state that William Shakespeare is not a Canadian town. – Michael Aurel (talk) 15:38, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, requiring a reliable source before saying that the same name is being used in Greek mythology for two separate people is obviously NOT the same as requiring a source before saying that an Elizabethan playwright is not a town in Canada, & claiming that it is is reductio ad absurdum. It is more like requiring a source before saying that there were three different Amphitryons just because different versions of the tales give him different mothers (the article on him currently says in the intro: "His mother was named either Astydameia, the daughter of Pelops and Hippodamia, or Laonome, daughter of Guneus, or else Hipponome, daughter of Menoeceus.")

e UrielAcosta (talk) 16:04, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is the other way around: the reason we can say those genealogies are all referring to the one Amphitryon is because we have reliable sources which say that they are all referring to the same figure. For such a source, see, for instance, Brill's New Pauly, s.v. Amphitryon. For Ersa and Herse (daughter of Cecrops) we don't have any such source, and we can't assume that they are the same without having a source. – Michael Aurel (talk) 16:16, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear: I think this section, "Confusion with Herse (daughter of Cecrops)", deals with an important issue to resolve for this article. Perhaps they should be merged, or linked, or (if reliable sources explicitly say that they are two separate characters) distinguished with a template at the top saying not to confuse them with each other. But simply removing reliable sourced content on the unsourced claim that it's wrong is not how Wikipedia works. UrielAcosta (talk) 15:41, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

One Ersa/Herse was the immortal daughter of Zeus and Selene the goddess of the Moon, the other was the mortal daughter of a legendary king of Athens. There is nothing to suggest that they are in fact the same mythological figure. asserting that they are the same as your edits have done would require a source that says that they are the same. I know of no such source. And I don't think one exists. Paul August ☎ 16:11, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]